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Post by Aitou Kaichi on Jan 2, 2012 0:45:13 GMT
As some of you may have heard, Forli (a dealer from the previous liar game) and I are intending to run the third Liar Game Tournament after this one has finished. Another player is intending to run something similar to the carousel of liars in the interim.
So, we would like to get some feedback on this liar game (and the previous, for those involved)?
What have you liked about the tournaments so far?
What have you disliked about the tournaments so far?
What do you want to see in the next tournament?
Feel free to either PM me or post here with your thoughts.
We have made some notable changes, so expect a whole new experience.
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Post by Ishida Katsuo on Jan 2, 2012 6:38:22 GMT
abolish contracts!
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Post by Watsuki Shichiro on Jan 3, 2012 2:03:05 GMT
What have you liked about the tournaments so far? I liked that the games were balanced well. I couldn't find many (if any) flaws in the setups of the games, and the only problems that have occurred were from the actual execution. I also liked the confessionals/chatlogs as they allowed me to put my plans on paper and share with others. I like being able to share my ideas, but sometimes the players aren't the ones to share them with...  And trophies were a great incentive to keep playing and take risks. Sure, they were simply achievements used to show how well we did, but it also made some players (like me) try to do much more than simply survive in order to get those shiny trophies and stars.  What have you disliked about the tournaments so far? INACTIVITY!!!  That was by FAR the most annoying thing to me in this game. Aside from having people drop out of rounds and even causing the horrible situation at the revival round, I would like to be able to actually get a response for once, or maybe just have an active forum outside of the games? I know there's little you can do about this, but maybe you can make games which don't suffer as much from inactivity? There were also some response problems with dealers (as I'm sure you noticed as well...), but the dealers were actually very good about everything in the last game, and I have to applaud Sagaro and Barbaro for a job well done! ...despite the large setback the players received... What do you want to see in the next tournament? I want to see well-planned games which cover a variety of styles and gameplay. For example (of the games I know from this tournament), Going Postal was a "Discerning the truth" game mixed slightly with popularity/votes; Stockpile was a game of forming a huge alliance and backstabbing when needed; Notoriety Game was definitely a smaller alliance game, but it also had a potential of forming multiple alliances and backstabbing to further an individual in the game; Poisoned Chalice was a "Can they work together" game which might have been a problem at the time, especially since inactivity would only help everyone survive; Marbles was a strange Winners' Round as it was not anywhere near as potentially profitable as the others, and the alliances were (supposedly) already laid out from Notoriety; Blood Money was a game of information and alliances, but I would definitely have preferred that the groups were mixed up more (the groups aside from switcheroos were just the Notoriety Game groups combined, as far as I could tell); Siege Game was another huge alliance game, but it was also a game of activity, so with the large inactivity spike of the holidays as well as alliance grudges and unwillingness to work together, it easily ended in the worst possible solution, despite my best efforts. Admittedly, many of these games benefited from large alliances, and I would like to have seen a game where an alliance will be hard-pressed to win, especially this late in the game. Blood Money could be considered a non-alliance game, but the information provided by an alliance was invaluable. Maybe if the already-existing alliances had been split up more?  |
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Post by Aitou Kaichi on Jan 3, 2012 3:21:25 GMT
The games were, for the most part, quite good. I'll get into the two flaws later, but these flaws are close to impossible to overcome.
Confessionals and Chatlogs was a good idea, but needs the dealers to respond, which creates a tricky balance coz they can't give away any information, and of course, there's the time component... We'll do what we can, but it's close to impossible to get a good system going.
Trophies are being kept, of course. There was talk about it early in LGT1, but Leronira and I never got off our asses and made them. I think it was more a title at that point though.
As you say, we can't do anything about inactivity in the form of stopping it from happening. But we can do stuff to minimize the effect, which is still difficult, but something we'll try to do. This is one of the points I touched upon earlier.
Lol. Alliance-heavy games. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to make a game that doesn't favour alliances. Blood money was one of the better attempts I've seen, to be honest.
The dealers actually put in a way of making alliances not auto-win, by having half the players get through. This made it difficult to arrange an alliance of more than half the players, and most games ended up being half the players vs the other half. (Exceptions exist, and that made those games either more interesting, or horribly boring. I got in on both.) This, of course, results in a situation where the inactives suddenly shift the game, since then the game is 3v2 or 4v3. At least one player quit the game when he saw the situation get to that point.
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Post by Barbaro on Jan 3, 2012 21:25:47 GMT
True. One of the first considerations we take when we step back from the rules and look at them objectively is "How can an alliance win everything?" Then we add, subtract, or change things to nerf that. Even then, it is incredibly difficult. In a perfect world, there would be no inactivity, and some of these games would have been more interesting.
In the end, the rules to each Liar Game are really only a framework. Players will find a way to work around them no matter what you do... and really that's what the Liar Game is about anyway. We do place some damn good barricades in the way though.
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That was by FAR the most annoying thing to me in this game. Aside from having people drop out of rounds and even causing the horrible situation at the revival round, I would like to be able to actually get a response for once, or maybe just have an active forum outside of the games? I know there's little you can do about this, but maybe you can make games which don't suffer as much from inactivity?
